Slightly OT: the evils of censorship

EDIT: Have a look at this video also, it's on the same topic and rather brilliant!

Check out this website (link below). I thought it might interest some people here. It shows just how proud we should be of the Pythons for their public actions during the Life of Brian controversy. The world needs people who will stand against bigoted ignoramuses who try and crush freedom of action and expression, and who see evil when it isn't there, and moreover where there's significant and obvious EVIDENCE that it isn't there. Personally, looking at this website makes me want to smash things.

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Lvndr HppE: I have to say that I don't play records backwards, and I am American. But I do have this strange urge to give Judas Priest a peppermint.

Here Comes Another One at 9:30 am November 03

Hahahaha! Classic!

thewastelandr: I'm going to throw some opinion in here. Seeing that interview (where the picture on this thread is from) makes me sick. That website makes me sick. It's the fact that religious leaders like these give the rest of us Christians a bad name. But that's always how it goes - the crazy people speak the loudest.

As a Christian myself, I believe it is really impossible (and definitely not healthy) to judge whether another person is a true Christian or not. However, there are certain virtues that Christians are to attempt to embody. What I get from these people is that they are being judgmental, hateful, self-righteous, legalistic, and they are certainly not forgiving. All of those things make me think that they do not know what it truly means to be a Christian.

Ok, I'm done. But I'll second what genji said and say that this is not off topic and I'm really glad you posted it!

Here Comes Another One at 7:53 am October 30

Thanks! Like I said before I'm really glad to see Christians angry at this, because it just shows that extremism is extremism no matter what your religion is.

The interview makes me mad, especially to see how it's upsetting MP who's usually so even-tempered. It's interesting though, because it shows up the antagonists so neatly. They expected Cleese & Palin to be ignorant, rather than very intelligent Oxbridge graduates who'd thought everything through. That I think is a typical view not only of celebrities but also their fans.

I've added another link to my original post - take a look!

thewastelandr at 6:19 pm November 01

Wow that is amazing... I love that Fry and Laurie sketch they use! The Bishop and the Warlord... my favorite band! ;) Thank you for posting that - it's really insightful.

Here Comes Another One at 9:23 pm November 01

You're welcome, I'm glad to be able to discuss with people who feel the same way about these things as I do.

Tanya_Birklid19: Okay, I'll throw my two cents in.

People like 100% Jesus freaks and Bible pushers just make me sick. This website made me say negative things about the content on the page. So, all those who listen to rock are Satanists and are going to hell? Excuse me? Hells no! I agree with Mrs A. Most of the shit they put up about musicians being Satan worshippers is a bunch of bollocks. Going on the subject about the Pythons being atheistic, I'm reading Himalaya at the moment and at one point Michael was asked about his religion, and he said he was agnostic. Is this true? I don't know, but I'm going with Mrs A's known fact for now.

This is off subject, I was agnostic for a few months, but I believe in some sort of higher power. I'm converting to Spirtiualism, and it seems like the . . . I don't know what word to use . . . it's the right "thing" (?) for me. I think religion is just overrated. "Love thy neighbor." Really? Does the Spanish Inquisition ring a bell? Crimeny. Also, I knew Crowley was not a Satanist.

I hope I didn't offend anyone.

There. I'm done.

Here Comes Another One at 6:49 pm October 29

All good points, Tanya, & interesting about your converting to Spiritualism. So many people carry on half-heartedly practicing the religion they were raised in, or else just becoming atheist or agnostic - which is fine (I'm an agnostic myself) except some of them seem uncomfortable with it, as if they need some sort of religious presence in their lives but they're not quite sure where to go. So it's great that you've done some real soul-searching and found what's right. I bet that's really satisfying.

Tanya_Birklid19 at 11:42 am November 01

It's a really good idea to find out what is right for you. We were given free will and we don't need Bible pushers to tell us to pray only to one god. I have my doubts, but I believe there is some force, deity, spirits, what have you, that act upon life.

genji: I don't think this is off-topic. It gets to the heart of what Python was about, which is challenging authority. In this case it's about challenging extremism, but it's still standing up to people who think it's their way or the highway. The people on that website are clearly extremists, and there are plenty of those about.

I don't think it's worth getting angry about, though - well not on a personal level (society as a whole should probably be a bit cross). They're clearly very silly and calling Elton John a child of the devil or condemning Freddie Mercury to hell isn't a big deal, really, is it? They might as well call them munchkins doomed to spend eternity in Oz, or orcs from Mordor. I find them risible and ridiculous (shocking, yes, but in a funny way, like Mr. Creosote). The real problem is when this kind of extremist gets voted into government (we had one in May's UK election - a member of a cult church that held praying sessions over homosexuals in order to exorcise their gay demons - she wasn't elected, but she was taken on as a consultant by the new government). You have to hope that the Fourth Estate does its job properly in that situation.

Religion's always a thorny subject for discussion (and I wouldn't want my post to come across as any kind of comment on moderates or even on religion generally; it's specifically about people who can only see in black and white), but I think this is interesting and chimes with another subject we touched on briefly - social revolution in the Sixties and how nothing ever really changes. Python is wrapped up in all of that without being militant or exclusive.

I'm rambling now, aren't I?

Yes I agree - it is interesting.

Mrs Attila the Hun 93: Thanks for the post HCAO. But I'll tell you what, that is probably one of the worst things I have ever seen in my life. Not that I blame you, I'm just saying...

These people are fanatics. THEY KNOW NOTHING! Heck, I probably know more about the Bible than they do. Sure, God hates the occult and Satanic practices, but he gave us FREE WILL for a reason. If they want to worship Satan or sing songs that are slightly offensive and blasphemous etc that's UP TO THEM.

They blast these great artists such as Prince, Michael Jackson, John Lennon, AC/DC, even Freddie Mercury, and they say that they're all going to rot in Hell. Ridiculous. What a load of old tripe! Most of its probably fake anyway...
You can't go saying that Lennon or George Harrison are rotting in Hell! That's a horrible thing to say! And so what if Paul McCartney has a Ram on his album cover, which may suggest that he has interest in the occult? Big deal! Who cares?! It's an animal! Does that make every artist who has a ram or goat on their albums a Satanist? BAH! That's hilarious!

Take Cannibal Corpse for example. They are a death metal band from America and, being brutally honest, their lyrics are vile and repulsive to say the least. But I don't go blasting them for that. If they want to write them lyrics and sing songs about eating people's brains, that's UP TO THEM. I know for a fact that the Pythons are atheistic. I don't agree with it, but I respect their choices. Can't these idiots just leave these talented people ALONE? Why don't they just say, "Oh, I don't like that," or "Oh, I think that's offensive," and just leave it at that?

Also, look at this quote: If you don't have a King James Bible, you don't have a Bible! How can they have the guts and spitefulness to say that?! What's so special about the King James Bible? They seem to blast near enough every religion out there. If anything, they're the evil ones here.

Forget about smashing things, this website makes me want to throw up and gorge my own eyes out.

Mrs Attila the Hun 93 at 5:35 am October 29

OK, I blew up, I apologise. Just this website makes me so... irate :(

Here Comes Another One at 7:03 am October 29

Well, Mrs A, both yours and Genji's comments resounded with me. I'm also glad to see a response from a Christian who respects people's right to free will and therefore actually demonstrates some awareness and adherence to Christ's teachings.

While I agree that such extreme views aren't worth my anger and I'd be better off laughing, I just can't help it, I mean ... BLIMEY! It makes me MAD! M-M-MAAAD! AARGH! AAARGH!

(Sorry, just taking refuge in some Cleese-isms there!)

Take Led Zeppelin for example. I've read quite a bit about them, and I'm also familiar with some of Aleister Crowley's writings. Aleister Crowley was NOT a Satanist; it's like you said, genji, in relation to musicians: Crowley used the imagery (i.e. the epithet Beast 666) specifically to stir people up. Media reactions amused him.

What makes me sick is that even a cursory glance at what he actually wrote shows that he wasn't a Satanist. Also, even people who call themselves Satanists aren't evil, as such: most of them use the John Milton/Anton Lavey idea of Satan as rebel and hedonist. But I digress.

The point is that the ideas about Led Zeppelin on this website (and elsewhere) are misconceptions of a misconception. And I have read so many examples of this ridiculousness. Melody Maker, for one, wrote that Jimmy Page used Satanic magic to kill John Bonham - I believe Page sued them and won his case.

Human sacrifice is a new one, though. I can just imagine Page doing that: the same guy who's earned an OBE for charity work with children, and was almost physically sick when he saw security guards beat up an audience member. And who showed an interest in Crowley, who in fact ridiculed elaborate ritual magic (in quite a Pythonesque way!) in Moonchild, and portrayed ritual violence against both people and animals as cruel and unnecessary!

genji at 5:59 am October 29

That's fair enough - it's an honest reaction, and you made a lot of good points.

I think Paul McCartney was probably more into shepherding than the occult (doesn't he breed sheep on his farm or something?). I think the King James Bible comment is strange - it excludes all Catholics at a stroke (probably an unfortunate turn of phrase to use in relation to Catholics).

I would think anyone with a ram or goat on their album covers probably uses it specifically because it's not related to the devil in order to get these fanatics frothing and foaming.